Well, the little method I just conjured to prove the rock's presence is kind of funky, but well, here goes...

Well, first, one should observe the matter around the rock, be it dust, smaller pebbles, or if necessary, place something such as pieces of paper besides the rock. Basically, this little method requires some kind of matter beside the rock. Now, after doing that, one can flick the supposed rock and, if the object next to it is lightweight enough, then said matter should slightly move because of the rock's movement. Because of the rock's movement, the matter beside it moved, thus proving the rock's presence or existence. If no rock were moved, then the matter beside it wouldn't have moved either, for nothing would have been flicked, or whatever it is one could have done in such a situation, and would have resulted in the paper, pebbles, or whatever it may be to remain stationary.

Also, if one doesn't want to use something such as an accompaniment to prove the rock's existence, one is also capable of flicking the rock by itself, and such an act should create sound waves coming from the rock's movement.

Also, I really wanted to respond to this other question, because it is a very good question, and has been asked often. Actually, I want to respond to the person's statement, looking at it from a deaf person's perspective.

The question asked was: "If a tree falls in the forest, and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

The reponse I'm interested in was: "The answer? NO! It makes Vibrations, sound is the result of the brain interperting the vibrations picked up by the ear drum."

Now, here's something I never quite thought about. In the question, it says "if there was no one around to hear it." Now, a deaf man can't hear, but they know it made a sound, correct? When a tree falls, it not only creates a vibration that can be processed by the brain through the ear, but it also creates vibrations that can be felt.

My point is, a person may not see a tree fall, but if they're in the distance, they can feel the ground shaking, depending on the enormity of the tree. Because of the vibrations felt through the earth, a low rumbling sound would be made. That rumbling would be caused by the tree's falling, which, in a way, would result in one hearing the tree's "fall", without ever having seen it, or really ever having to be too near it. Well, I could be wrong--it's my opinion, so there's a good chance of that. Eheh. ^^;

I can't, because it's impossible to prove a positive (assuming we're all Cartesian fags around here. I don't think this is the place to argue Zen vs. western logic, so we should probably do that).

To boot, you typed *pretend* instead of "Say I place a rock in front of you. Prove it's there." Every statement could be countered with "There's no rock in front of you, I said 'pretend!' LOLLOGSDFOLZoMG!!!11"

EDIT: also, about that tree-falling thingy. OK, I guess Rakko could be right, but I don't think that's the definiton of sound. Everybody says "sound is vibration" and "sound travels in waves," right? Any vibration in any other medium produces vibrations; sound.

Yes, but that would simply be a vibration, a vibration does not become a sound until the brain perceives it as one. So a deaf man cannot hear sound, he can only feel vibration.


Yigg: yes, I thought of the whole 'Say' thing as well, that is why I changed it.

as for the rock, the perfect, undeniable answer is: What rock?

But seriously, I would tend to believe that matter does not truly 'exsist' until it is seen to have an effect on other matter.

ROFL Yig...haha yeah if you were trying to trick us by saying "pretend" then physically it does not exist...well that specific one...


But in the imagination it does exist.

All anyone ever does is feel vibrations. With their eardrums.

Anyway, could you plz elaborate and explain your "what rock?" anwser?

Well, What rock, as in the sense that you do not see a rock.

It relates back to the old Philosophy scenario: A teacher places an essay before you as your final exam, all it says is, 'Why?'

You simply answer with, 'Why not?' and turn in your paper.

heh, yeah. And everything currently running around in your head are the only things that can be truly be proven. But not to anyone besides yourself.

And, that says nothing about external reality. The rock might just be a dream, or a schizophrenic breakdown of your mind, or whatnot. Like when some old, dead asian guy had a dream about being a butterfly, woke up, and wondered if he was really a butterfly, dreaming he was a guy, dreaming he was a butterfly.